Guys ... I know that all (3) of you serve in different places, but you all deal with outdoormen. Now that you are on the inside of men's ministry, what has been the biggest revealtion that has caught you by surprise? That is ... everybody starts out with certain expectations, aspirations, or a view of what they think it will be like when it comes to leading men. However, once you really get involved, you learn things about yourself, your church, and even the men you "thought you knew." It stretches you when you step into leadership.
So what has been your biggest revealtion of what ministry is actually like as compared to what you thought it would be?
Saturday, March 22, 2008
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The greatest revelation has been my greatest surprise. When I started outdoor ministry in our church plant, I assumed I would have to do all of the work. The guys who enjoyed the outdoors that were already in church, basically were not very active in church. I have never seen a group of guys come out of their proverbial "shells" and take ownership of a ministry so fast. They are out of control (in a good way). They work hard and believe in reaching guys using their hobbies and passions.
Let me first of all say that all this outdoor ministry leader stuff was new to me a few years ago. I'm not a Bible scholar. I've not been to seminary. I'm just a regular dude, a good ole' boy that loves the Lord. I knew nothing about mens ministry when all this started. All I knew was that I wanted to use my passion (hunting and fishing) to reach others with the love of Christ. Once I finally decided to start a men's sportsmen group at our church I was all fired up. I figured that all the hunters and fishermen that came to our first meetings would be all fired up too, ready to jump in with both feet. But it didn't take me long to learn a few things about men's ministry. First of all, everyone else didn't seem as fired up about things as I was. In fact, during the first month or so I had to do nearly all the talking at our meetings. The fellas that came to our meetings just stared at me. I went home after many meetings thinking that "they didn't get it" or "they don't like it" and thought our sportsmen's ministry would be short lived. However, many of the guys kept coming for some reason. Then, many of their wives started asking what were we talking about during our meetings because their husbands couldn't stop talking about it when they got home. That was all news to me! From all this I learned that you need to hang in there and be patient. Plan on being in this for the long haul because men need time, some more than others. What you think they're thinking may not be what they're really thinking at all. Those guys were really enjoying what was going on, but didn't let me know it at all. I had to hear it from their wives. When fellas learn that they can really be themselves, and when you earn their trust all kinds of stuff starts happening. That's when it really gets good! It's kinda like hunting turkeys. Sometimes that big ole' Tom is on his way because he likes the calling he's heard. He's not gobbling - cause he's moving toward you trying find where you're at. In those cases, it pays to be patient so you can get him within range instead of giving up thinking he's gone the other way.
- Jeremy B. Harrill
What kind of feedback were you getting from the wives of the guys who were talking it up at home ... but not to you?
I have always had a passion for the Outdoors. But it wasn't until an associate pastor at the church I attend approached me about reaching Outdoorsmen. Of course, at first, it sounded interesting but not for me. God opened my heart and my eyes and I began to see the the opportunity to do God's will. Man, it has been awesome! I am not a teacher, preacher, evangalist just another Man who loves the Lord and the Outdoors so why not use my passion to do God's will? It is probably one of the most crucial decisions I have made. The impact an Outdoor Ministry has on Men is ubelievable. Men will open up and talk and discuss things when they are around other Men who share the same passions. God uses the Outdoors to touch a Man's heart. Since beginning and Outdoor Ministry, we have hosted 2 hunter ed classes, a boater operation class, completed one bible study and getting ready to start another.( if interested you can reach me at 582-8077). When you are doing God's will amazing things will happen! Men are like a flock of mallards, it doesn't take much to spoke them. But, when everything is set up right and they are comfortable, they will come in and land. Oh yea, you also get 100% support from your wife to hunt and fish more often when you are doing God's will, she doesn't mind! There is no dought an Outdoor Ministry will change a man's heart. It changed Mine
JR Ruggiero
The wives of the fellas coming to the class were asking me what in the world we were talking about in our discussions. When I asked them "why", many of them said that when their hunbands got home it was all they talked about. It was strange, because when I asked a question to spark discussion during our meetings on a particular issue, the men didn't have much to say - at least in the beginning.
Some of the wives commented that their hunsbands couldn't wait to come. Keep in mind, several of these dudes didn't come to church at all, ever!
The wives said that some of the fellas talked about it being a real "mans" class. I guess most dudes have never been in a church and in a group or class that talked a lot about killing stuff and eating it. In this group it was OK to be a man...the very thing that God had created us to be!
In the beginning, our men didn't talk much. I would often worry how I would fill an hours time. Now, the guys can't stop talking and we run late every week.
Big Sky Will is right. I've found that men who are disconnected are usually that way for a reason. Think about it; John Eldredge's book, Wild @ Heart, sold millions of copies for a reason - it wasn't women buying it. It was men. Eldrdege nailed it when he said that most men in churches are bored. It doesn't matter if we like it or not - Eldredge is right. We can sit back all day and condemn a man for being disconnected and saying church is boring ... or we can engage him in ways that speak his language. I think there is a lot of Jesus in that, because Jesus seemed to be able to talk to a man about all that he could become instead of all that he was right now.
I am learning Taxidermy. Iwould like to get some type of group started in the Taxidermy world. Any suggestions?
I posted a poll on the Taxidermy forum and it had mixed reviews.
Any interest in a Christian Taxidermy assc?
Yes - 34 (39.5%)
No - 49 (57%)
Already exist - 3 (3.5%)
Total Voters: 86
http://www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php/topic,75508.0.html
I agree 100% church is set up for women. I have never been to a church that has a camoflauge room with deer heads. Thats what outdoorsmen want to see and they feel comfortable there. I hold an outdoormen bible study at a buddies house who's room is filled with deer heads, turkeys and a bobcat. Men like that! Like Jeremy said, at first the Men didn't say much at all, I did all the talking and we finished session 1 in 58 minutes. The next three sessions the Men opened up and engaged in conversation because the issue or topic being discussed was focused on Men. We have not had a study since that was finished in less than 1 1/2 hours. Why is that? Men will open up with other Men. Remember, Jesus did most if not all of his teaching outdoors. If it wasn't effective jesus would not have done it. If you bring the ourdoors indoors, Men will come.
Commenting on the taxidermy issue. If that is your hobby, God will work through you in taxidermy for His glory. The opportunity is there, Pray on it and take the next step.
JR Ruggiero
I'm trying to make it full time.
And on taking the next step. I kinda thought that's what I was doing when I asked here?
On the taxidermy issue - I think it's a great idea. I have been to lots of small groups over the years, but never felt really connected, until I was in a group where people had a common interest / passion. Affinity groups as they are often called are very successful. The info you gathered from your poll suggested that 39.5% of those who responded were interested - that's great. It sounds like a great place to start. From there you may be able to get a core group of folks interested in sharing the Gospel through taxidermy. Who knows where God would take it...We had a taxidermist come to a meeting one time who was also a "Pope and Young" scorer. He taught guys how to score their deer. Then, we concluded by talking about how all hunters dream about being in the record books (Pope and Young / Boone and Crockett). Getting there name on the record books for harvesting a massive deer. We tied that into something more important - getting your name in God's record book. It was awesome! I can think of some great ways that a taxidermist could use his or her passion to spread the Good News. Good luck and keep us updated on how things go - it sounds like an awesome idea.
Jeremy Hit it on th ehead!! Those are great examples of how you can use taxidermy to spread the Gospel. Your poll shows 4 out of 10guys are interested that is you rsmall group and you grow from there. If you got the confirmation, take the leap of faith. You have nothing to lose trying and others have eternity to gain by what you do. OMN is here to help and support ideas just like yours.
Thank you both for the support and suggestions.
These folks are from around the country and world. What ideas do you have to get this started? This is definitely not my area of expertise. I am not a people person. But I see a great need for God in our industry.
I want to go back to the "wives response" comment. We have reached many men who were not in church at all. One lady was so excited that her husband came to church with her after she attended church 11 months alone. Only after he attended a couple of sportsmen's rallies was he willing to come with her to church. The smile and the tears on her face said it all. He even took time off work to go on a "church sponsored" pheasant hunt and Bible conference with some guys. This was the first time he had ever taken work off to hunt - much less with the pastor. He is still faithfully attending church and involved in the sportsmen's ministry.
How about the guys we have comign to church without their wives - I'm not kidding - it really is happening. And these men are being transformed and now some of their wives are "checking out" church. The sportsmen's ministry has become so successful at reaching men that the women see it. We just celebrated our second anniversary of our church plant and some ladies were in charge of the decorations. I was shocked when I came into church and they had chosen "The Lodge" theme for decorations. We had green and brown table cloths, bear figurines, pine cones, pine trees, and the "second anniversary cake" had a chocolate cross with a bull elk and a buck and doe deer standing around it. I thought I had died and gone to heaven. This was all done by the ladies!!! How is that for churchwide success.
William makes a great point. I can't remember where I read the statistic, but some study revealed that when you get a man / husband interested / committed, you usually get the entire family.
In response to the taxidermy issue again, my comments earlier were around starting a small group of local taxidrermist in your area. Kinda like our church sportsmen's ministry. It sounds like your idea is to do something on a much broader scale. That's awsome! I think you just need to decide what you want to do specifically: provide conferences / seminars for taxidermist, start a Christian website for taxidermist, start a group of folks who evangelize using taxidremy as the "hook", etc. You may want to talk to folks who know you personally (especially in that industry)who may help and share in this vision. It sounds like you are more of a "people person" than you give yourself credit for. Your desire to reach others for Christ shows that you care about people tremendously. I bet there are other Christian taxidermist who would get really excited about this concept and may have strengths where you have weaknesses (and vice versa) Contacting Outdoor Minsitry Network and talking to someone personally once you have narrowed your focus is a good idea. OMN is always willing to assist in reaching others who love God's creation.
The taxidermy world is fairly small.
Most folks get together at state conventions and shows.
Then there are some national assc and conventions.
Other than that we stay locked up in our shops/worlds.
A local group would be one person more than likely. It would at least need to start on the state level if not larger. The 30 odd folks you saw vote were folks from around the world. Taxidermy.net is the watering hole for taxidermy on the net.
The website idea is where I think it should start. Like your blog, etc.
Then small groups could meet at the conventions.
I don't know if you read any of the post on my poll question but it was rather crude and belligerent.
Kinda what I see at the conventions. The good folks have unfortunately chosen to stay away from organized taxidermy events because of the few bad apples.
I would like to seek those folks and give them a place to fellowship.
I saw your ministry as a good marriage for this. Hunters and fishermen also need education in taxidermy so they know what they are paying for and what is good taxidermy and what is a ripoff. They might also be interested in the competition part of the taxidermy shows. But don't expect that level of work to be affordable. 100's of hours are put into show pieces.
Open to ideas and thank you.
Here's a good video on the subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_-wOZAeuvI
Here is a show/Seminar event that attracts folks nationally.
http://www.taxidermy.surry.edu/exhibitors.html
Any contacts in this area that might be interested in helping this Christian Taxidermist idea get off the ground? (Surry Community College Dobson NC)
I know some folks who live several counties away from Surry. They are in the process of getting a small group (Sportsmen Group) started at their church. They are also interested in having a wild game dinner - and could possibly need a taxidermist. I also know the fella who was (and maybe still is) the NC taxidermy Assoc. President. He may be able to help with some suggestions as well. Feel free to give me a call and I would be glad to chat and pass their info along to you. My contact phone number is (704)637-0717.
Thx Jeremy.
I just left a message.
I am not looking to be their taxidermist. There are plenty good ones in NC.
I would like them to spread the word about the competition and seminars.
It would be nice for non-taxidermist to see the work on display. The last day the competition pieces are open to the public. It's not the biggest and best show for competition pieces "YET", but there has been some nice work on display in the past.
It would be even better if there were a fellowship available. The gov't probably will not allow it at the school but maybe off campus somewhere.
Thanks
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